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Really. The answers to some of the concerns you're pointing out would be answered if you reread my initial suggestion.
10:58 PM
...some of them.
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I know what you said lol
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that said, there is a distinction between perfect parallel processing and merely some parallel processing: if you find 2 problems that would take you 5 minutes to solve, you and your tulpa don't have to solve them both in 5 minutes total to have parallel processing, just less than 10
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It's just logistically complex in a way that makes an objective text difficult
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I will also point out - conversation, while it could be argued to be 'parallel processing', is reactionary.
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And relies a lot on personal skill at the thing being tested
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For the most part.
10:59 PM
More in-depth responses also typically have significant amount of typing time, since they are often done via typing - and that allows time for thought.
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I don't know how you formulate your conversations but we tend to be already mid thought on what to say during the conversation :p
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Perhaps for the ones claiming parallel processing, they could try to draw two separate images with the tulpa controlling one hand and them controlling the other hand, directly in front of them.
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^
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Or, they could try to talk about one topic and type another at the same time.
11:00 PM
Split-brain patients can do the former, at least.
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that is definitely possible, I'm talking about yugioh in a vc in another discord right now
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Clearly it is possible, but the question is whether a normal, unsplit brain can do it.
11:01 PM
@Srn347 And you aren't typing very much.
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I'm keeping up with what's being said though
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Either way - this is something that could be directly tested, in a more controlled environment.
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I want to know: Can a Tulpa be opposite handed then you? Right -to - left...?
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If people really want to claim that parallel processing is legitimate in the manner they claim, they should have an observer test it - or better, record their conversation... say, on stream - and demonstrate that it is possible.
11:02 PM
Especially in a manner that the person cannot do themselves.
11:03 PM
(I suggest streaming since that typically involves a facecam video, footage of the computer screen, and voice - recording all specifically relevant factors in the example of talking and typing simultaneously without large pauses)
11:03 PM
The point being - people who want to believe they can parallel process are biased.
11:04 PM
It is extremely reasonable to assume that they may not notice the pauses without a recording pointing them out clearly.
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I think a tulpa can be opposite handed because the form is just a representation of what they are. When fronting or switching, your body might not change hands because muscle memory and neural networks are already in place.
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The problem is that it genuinely seems like you're trying to test things that are putting mental ability to its maximum level of stress, which doesn't work well considering that you're not accounting for the already admitted issue with not expanding metal overheads- the ability to handle 2 separate tasks would be way more fair
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Then why claim parallel processing in the first place and state it is somehow different from what has already been researched?
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:08 PM
Because what has been researched does not involve plurality. You have to account for something as significant as that when making conclusions
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...then, as is always the case, the one making the claim is responsible for providing evidence.
11:09 PM
What is different about it?
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Astounding we don't have peer reviewed papers about imaginary anime girls being able to do stuff at the same times the sweaty neckbeard that made them is trying to :p
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...astounding that I didn't ask for that, either.
11:11 PM
I asked for a clearly recorded demonstration of the additional ability being claimed.
11:12 PM
That is evidence - at the very least, it is more convincing to make the claim with footage backing it up than anecdotal stories that are fairly directly explained by existing psychological models.
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:13 PM
To answer these questions we would need to know much more about consciousness itself and how plurality impacts brain function
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...the question of what additional ability you are claiming?
11:15 PM
Saying "more research should be done" is very different from saying "my tulpa can stay consciously active while daydreaming while I simultaneously act in real life with no noticable reduction in capability" instead of "my tulpa thinks that they did something while inactive and generated a memory that sounds vaguely plausible as imagination".
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:15 PM
We do not understand the internal mechanics of plurality well, and until we do, we will not know very much about how it impacts brain function (edited)
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I don't think I'm speaking for people who say they're running full scale wonderland simulation in the background :p
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Then, quite simply, the claims should be clearer.
11:18 PM
...and naturally, if they are going to directly contradict existing understanding of brain functioning, some demonstration is reasonable in order for that claim to be taken seriously.
11:19 PM
Or for one to expect others to accept it, at the very least.
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I would be willing to go with a test that doesn't crutch on something we'd already struggle at :p
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:20 PM
I do not believe parallel processing contradicts currently established understanding of brain functioning, because anything currently established does not deal with plurality
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I got it. 3 times tables with the left hand, and 4 times tables with the right.
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plural =/= magic
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We're all stand users nowwwww
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:21 PM
Where do you get the idea that is what I am implying?
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Abveion. Do you believe that by creating a tulpa, the human brain gains some kind of special ability that it does not otherwise have?
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:26 PM
Having more than one person in your head is not necessarily advantageous but it is undoubtedly a change from the norm
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That isn't an answer.
11:27 PM
...or, more accurately, that is an answer, but it does not address my question.
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:27 PM
Does "special ability" mean "different" here?
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Tulpa seems to be a sidegrade to normal. Not an upgrade, nor a downgrade.
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:28 PM
Agreed
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...Abvieon - "special ability" as in "ability that is outside the range of currently demonstrated brain functioning". (edited)
11:29 PM
Apologies. I needed to clarify that.
11:30 PM
...actually, never mind. In retrospect, it was fine as-is.
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[Demonstrated? Oh for sure. They don't really demonstrate or go to far into finding the limits of what the brain can do in normal studies. Simply because it isn't of much interest. That's why it isn't really reliable to try and use research to figure out what the limits can be.]
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:30 PM
It's hard to answer that question because all of the criteria that defines normal brain functioning is based on a model of the brain that may no longer apply once you introduce plurality
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I disagree. Savants have demonstrated a 'superhuman' capability to recall incredibly minute details from memories far in the past.
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:31 PM
Consciousness is just a weird thing. If we knew more about it we'd know so much more in general
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...just as a simple example.
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The brain gains no special ability by creating a tulpa.
11:31 PM
The physical structure of your brain does not change.
11:31 PM
The electrical pathways of your brain do not change.
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[For example can you have insta-tulpas just by trying for a moment, fairly autonomous and developed ones? I think so, if simply because some brains are prone to it.]
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Normal people can remember and recall stuff just like a savant.
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Citation needed.
11:32 PM
@Syfar System Not so - the brain itself prevents that.
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That's not how this works. You prove a positive (that things DO change).
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Normal people don't automatically recall what they had for breakfast three months ago.
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In order to logically come to a conclusion, you must prove a positive claim, not a lack of a claim.
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Or prove a negative claim.
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The kinds of savants I refer to don't need to train and specifically commit these things to memory. They simply do. (edited)
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If they try to remember it, as in make it a habit to remember details like that...
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"The physical structure of your brain does not change" is not only a negative which does not require proving compared to a positive claim, but you physically can not change the structure of your brain consciously - human bodies just don't do that. It's like willing yourself to grow an extra toe.
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Mm... @Deleted User, I do have to disagree with you. Habits can be deliberately broken - that in itself disproves that claim.
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This doesn't have anything to do with habits.
11:34 PM
Habits are behavioral.
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...behavior is literally brain functioning.
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Adding a new ability has the requirement of a PHYSICAL change.
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And part of the 'structure of the brain'.
11:35 PM
Ah - if you're talking about overarching structure, certainly.
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I feel a computer analogy would work here.
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But changing the way neurons connect is possible.
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[And really why is there this assumption that the brain has to have massive changes to change habits and thoughts. Just some quick changes in electrical impulses from active thoughts and voila. Massive changes in thought-proccess or tulpafication without massive brain changes.]
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@Sete Ah - consistent patterns of thought and reinforced behaviors do take time to change.
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He mentioned getting an ability, like flawless memory recall, which would require a proper remapping of the brain.
11:36 PM
Changing thought process, patterns and habits can be done.
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Habits take more than two weeks to establish/deestablish, as a typical minimum. The average is closer to several months.
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Abvieon {Alex} 5/13/2018 11:36 PM
My view of what tulpas are implies the existence of parallel processing, at least under my view of what parallel processing is. What does everyone here view tulpas as in the 'inner mechanics' sense? In what ways do you believe they impact brain functioning, and how do they fit in with the currently established understanding of the brain?
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Some rare case people, can never forget.
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@Abvieon {Alex} So then, how do you define parallel processing?
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Unless there's physical changes, including head trauma (as happened to a man who developed savant syndrome with maths), you can not gain " magic" memory recall abilities. (edited)
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[I don't believe you really. Take an addiction. You can decide to break it and stick to it and you will. In 1 go. It's hard, but can be done. Presistent behaviour changed in 1 second.]
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@Sete The decision to change something doesn't instantaneously change it.
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I agree, if you have the willpower you can break a habit pretty quickly.
11:37 PM
I used to do drugs, and I quit the habit in an instant, just cold turkeyed them because I was sick of throwing my life away. That's a chemically induced habit too. If you have the willpower, a habit doesn't take months to kick.
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